Part 2 Interview Robert Wolfe - Living Nonduality

Greetings!  I'm pleased to present the second part of my Interview with Robert Wolfe, author of Living Nonduality.

Diane: From Part 1 of our interview, where you describe nonduality:

"For millennia, teachers of nonduality -- in enlightenment traditions such as Buddhism, Taoism, Vedanta -- have assured us that it is possible to transcend the limitation of dualistic awareness, and thereby live in an awareness of dualities absence, which turns out to be: harmony, contentment and equanimity."

My questions for you today have to do with equanimity, as Buddha and others suggest to forsake preference and not wish life to be any different than it is.

1. How can one be moved to do things (make changes) while being at peace with the way things are?

2. How is it possible to feel compassion or concern for others yet be detached from suffering?

I suspect the answer to these questions about equanimity has to do with the relative "everyday world" not being separate from the absolute. But, I'm not very good at explaining these things.  The terminology of nonduality is an apparent stumbling block for me as far as communicating It (while living It seems effortless).  It is seen that there is no "I" as "a separate me" and nonduality is not a "thing". Talking about This is something I wish to improve on, yet the perceived limitation is accepted.  Part of "me" says this could be a conflict (desiring to change while accepting what is) yet it also seems that there is no problem or division.  As you say in your book, it's "That doing what it does" or "This too is It".

Robert:  Thank you for the inquiry!  In regard to you first statement, the teachers are telling us that it is possible to live in this state of awareness (which is characterized by my concluding sentence in the earlier paragraph about "how life is different"): "whose existence is it, but that of the Ultimate?"

We have all read, or heard, "you are not the doer." Involved in the transformative aspect of self-realization is the firm adoption of this insight. If, as you have stated, "there is no I as a separate me," then what is the source of any of the activities of the human organism?

If the body is a phenomenon that owes origination to an ultimate reality, a fundamental Being, then likewise the brain. If this brain is the seat of a "mind" and this mind is aware of thoughts, what is the source of origination? If these thoughts precede actions, what ultimately is responsible for the actions? And would this not apply to both "good thoughts" and "bad thoughts," hence "good" (or positive) actions and "bad" (or negative) actions?

So, when one is "moved to do things (make changes)" it is -- as you said -- "That doing what it does," whatever it is that is being done. And when one is not moved to do things, make changes, it is That doing what it does, just the same.

When this awareness is, as I said, firmly adopted, one relinquishes concern for whatever is being done or not being done: the recognition is that, "I am not the doer." (Or, put another way: I am the doer; but who am I? I am That.)

This is "being at peace with the way things are." This is where "harmony" and the "contentment" come in: we no longer critique "our" thoughts, speech or actions. There are no longer the dualistic standards being applied: "am I in equilibrium?" To use your words, "forsake preferences, and not wish for life [or activity] to be any different than it is." As a Zen Roshi said, "Sun-faced Buddha. Moon-faced Buddha."

Regarding your other point, I think you can see that what has been said above can have some relevance here too. But more specifically: when the "I" dissipates, the "personal" suffering of that goes with it. So, one is no longer attached to one's "own" suffering, as an idea-about-things (or concepts).

But while one recognizes that she has "ended" her own sense of suffering, she has not lost cognizance of the perceived suffering of others around her. Knowing now that such suffering can be transcended, she is apt to feel (even more) "compassion or concern for others," and -- with her own self-concern dissipated -- open to attempting to be of assistance in what ways she (now) can.

So, while one is "detached" from one's own suffering, it is meanwhile recognized that others may not be similarly detached.
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Dear Readers, I encourage you to visit Robert Wolfe's website, livingnonduality.org.  Click on "ebook" to sample his Living Nonduality book and "Recordings" to watch video interviews.

Gratitude to Robert Wolfe and to his publisher, Michael Lommel of Karina Library for making this interview possible.

Interview with Robert Wolfe - Living Nonduality

First of all, I would like to thank Robert Wolfe very much for this interview. I cannot express how much I have enjoyed reading his book, Living Nonduality. I would like to invite those who are interested, to visit Robert's website where his entire 444 page book is available to read for free as an ebook. Click here to visit Robert Wolfe's Living Nonduality website.

For quite some time, I have been fascinated by the subject of Nonduality. I'm not an author myself but I take delight in sharing nondual quotes, poems and other writings on my Simply This blog along with my nature photographs.



Interview with Robert Wolfe, author of Living Nonduality

Diane AZ: To begin, Robert, please tell me how you define nonduality.

Robert Wolfe: We have been conditioned to duality from the earliest days of our life, so in that sense we all know what duality is, don't we? Its most elemental proposition is that "I" exist, and all else in the universe is "not I". While making practical distinctions, such as day and night, hot and cold, north and south, etc., our conditioned awareness also expresses itself as a judgmental spectrum with negative at one pole and positive at the other. And it ingrains a habitual mindset, a thought pattern, based inevitably on this kind of division, and the desire, fear, and actions that arise from it. In other words, our dualistic viewpoint -- which we take for granted -- is at the root of our divisiveness, dissatisfaction, and conflicting values; in short, of our unhappiness.

For millennia, teachers of nonduality -- in enlightenment traditions such as Buddhism, Taoism, Vedanta -- have assured us that it is possible to transcend the limitation of dualistic awareness, and thereby live in an awareness of dualities absence, which turns out to be: harmony, contentment and equanimity. Non-dual, of course, means "not two"; so, nonduality is the condition of Oneness as a living experience; the transcendence of our dualistically perceived unhappiness.

Diane: Who or what was instrumental to your shift in perspective?

Robert: Ramana Maharshi is the nondual teacher most often referred to in Living Nonduality. There are also two short biographical sketches available online: The Absolute Enigma (the opening chapter of Living Nonduality) and Awakening to Living in the Moment. [see right sidebar]

Diane: How is life different from a nondual perspective and why do you share this?

Robert: The shift in perspective, which nondual awareness represents, is occasioned by the dissolution of the (separative) self-image -- the idea of who we think we are. When our typical self-centeredness dissipates, in this circumstance, we become even more acutely aware of the perceived "suffering" of others around us. Knowing now that such suffering is not necessary (the basic principle of Buddha's teaching), one will notice a natural instinct to want to share one's own discovery with anyone who has an interest in hearing about it. After all, what did any of the great sages do after their enlightenment: they were available 24/7 to be of assistance to anyone they could who genuinely sought inner peace. An interviewer once asked Krishnamurti, Why do you do what you do? And his answer basically was "compassion". With self-realization, one's values change; and, as a consequence, one's behavior changes. How would I characterize that change in general: a flowing through the organism of a creative, and benevolent, force that expresses itself in a generalized (rather than a person-alized) love. Ramana Maharshi said this: "A Self-realized being can not help benefiting the world. His [or her] very existence is the highest good." Whose "existence" is it but that of the Ultimate?

Diane: What are you working on now?

Robert: I write most days on nonduality and meet people in person who are inquiring into it. The next book to be published will be The Gospel of Thomas: The Enlightenment Teachings of Jesus. Karina Library has a preview website here: www.enlightenedjesus.com.  People can also sign up there for release news. I'm also working on a new manuscript on the Hsin Hsin Ming, an ancient Zen poem on nonduality. No book in English that I can find has really explicated it yet for the modern reader. That should be published in 2011.

Diane:  Interesting!  I am so grateful for your response and will be sending you some follow up questions shortly.   Update: Click here for Part Two of this interview.

Dear Readers, I invite you to read a short sweet sample monograph from Robert's book on my Desert Colors blog. Click here to read Yea, Listen to the Mockingbird!